Listen in on my interview with Mark Seiverkropp who is a convert to the Church.
His idea of being an Entrepreneur came from his dad who was a farmer and had a small business.
Mark currently does business coaching and is on a mission to build a community of entrepreneurs and business owners who are men of the church.
Welcome to entrepreneurs of Christ, a podcast for men who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who want to leave their day job and want to answer the call to entrepreneurship. In other words, you’ve had an inkling, you’ve had a thought you’ve had impressions, to build something to create something. And that something is a business. That something is a pursuit, it’s an idea. It is a righteous desire to create something more with your life. And it may just be the spark of wanting more freedom, and wanting to create more abundance in your life. All of those things are good. And I believe that God wants them for you as well. Now, today, we are going to dive into an interview with Mark Seiverkropp. And him and I we relate very well to each other because we have similar missions. He also wants to help men who are members of the church. And he wants to help you with your business. I think he’s a little bit further down the road in terms of you already have a business, but we talk about and there’s going to be some resources that we talked about in this interview that you’ll want to check out. So let’s dive in to this interview with Mark Seiverkropp.
Tyson Bradley 01:32
All right, everybody, this is Tyson Bradley. And I am actually meeting here with Mark Seiverkropp. And we have a lot to share about just his story in entrepreneurship, and even getting into all of this. And I think that we’re going to learn a lot just from his experience, I know that we’re going to be able to dive in and just discuss some of the lessons that he’s learned and that you all can apply to yourself as well. So I wanted to I’ll start off with a question for Mark, and maybe mark, you could just kind of share just a little snip out you. And then we can kind of dive into, you know, the first question of like, Where did the idea of your business even come from?
Mark Seiverkropp 02:14
Sure. Well, first off, thanks for having me, I appreciate being here. And it’s always fun to talk with other people about business and about the gospel and connecting the two. So personally, I live in Washington State Central Washington State, I am a convert to the church. So I joined the church when I was 18. And I’ve been doing various things business wise. And you know, currently, I’m doing a lot of business coaching, and supporting supporting business owners and helping them and building their businesses. So I guess that’s the really short version. And I can I can dig more in or we can get into it as we get going. But yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, you know, business and the church are probably the two biggest influences in my life. And so it’s, it’s fun to, to be here, and they get to talk about them together, because that’s a lot of fun. So,
Tyson Bradley 02:55
yeah, no, that’s awesome. And I think it’s important to to or, you know, talked about together because I think they influence a lot with each other. So, you know, in terms of your, maybe the most recent iteration of your business, or, or kind of what you’re working on right now, like, Where did the idea of that business come from?
Mark Seiverkropp 03:13
You know, as far as coaching in general, I think I’ve always just really enjoyed coaching in different aspects, I’ve realized, as I’ve looked back at my life, that whether it’s, you know, coaching my kids in soccer, or, you know, helping friends or whatever else, I just love the idea of looking at something and kind of taking it apart and putting it back together and seeing how things connect. And I think that’s really led me to, you know, one of the things that I’m really excited about now, which is very similar to what we’re talking about today, which is, you know, the idea of having a group of guys that both, you know, have the same beliefs and standards and philosophy in life, you know, in the in the Gospel, but also are interested in business and talking about that.
Mark Seiverkropp 03:52
So, really, the, the genesis of that came from, you know, back several years ago, when I was called to serve as Bishop and I was talking to a friend of mine who wasn’t, isn’t a member of the church. And I mentioned to him that I was I was doing this and kind of talking about how, oh, my goodness, you know, this is gonna be hours and hours of my time, and, you know, it’s gonna up in my life and a lot of ways and you know, how that was gonna affect my business, you know, how it was gonna affect what I was trying to do, really, at that point, I didn’t even quit my day job, I guess, at that point, but realizing that and as I was talking to him, I’m like, yeah, you know, it’s, you know, it could be, you know, 20, maybe 30 hours, sometimes a week and, and he just, he paused. And he said to me, he goes, Well, can’t you just tell them? No, I was like, maybe? I don’t know. I guess I could, you know. And so, it was at that moment that I realized that the way that you and I as members of the church view, you know, our faith, and the way we serve in our faith is very, very different. And it does affects our businesses. It does affect things in ways that people that aren’t members of the church just don’t get, and it’s okay, it’s fine. It’s just very different.
Mark Seiverkropp 04:54
And so I think that, you know, years and years ago, I mean years ago, five years ago, probably that really was You know, the genesis of what I’m doing now is just realizing that that having that support, being able to, you know, in one breath, talk about, you know, getting clients or lead generation or whatever. And in the next breath, talk about how doing that is impacted by, you know, our, our belief of, you know, integrity or you know, doing the right thing, or you know, any of those types of things that the gospel brings in. And so that’s kind of where it came from. And it’s taken me probably five or six years to get to this point to where I’m like, Yeah, I want to do that I want to I want to pull together a community of people like that, but that’s really where it came from, was just my own experience of realizing that, you know, just because somebody was a business person didn’t mean, they knew how I would do business, or, you know, the emphasis I would place on, you know, serving in the church or Living the Gospel in a way that they wouldn’t.
Tyson Bradley 05:46
Right. So, you know, in terms of you like, showing up in business, and then having this calling as a bishop, how would you say the both, maybe more like, how did your work into entrepreneurship, impact your, your bishopric kind of role, and maybe vice versa, but I’d love to kind of just see some of the, I guess, the correlations between the two of what you’ve found as you were serving as a bishop as well as being an entrepreneur?
Mark Seiverkropp 06:15
Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve had conversations about this with with friends of mine. And I think, you know, like I said, when I was called as Bishop, I was still working for someone, but I’ve always wanted to work for myself, you know, my dad’s a farmer. And so I never realized that growing up, but he’s a small business owner, you know, he, he set his own schedule, he, you know, he set his own priorities. You know, nobody told him what to do. I mean, there was things he had to do, and they needed to get done. But so I’ve always had that mindset, I’ve always wanted to be that way. So I mean, as far as, I guess, the way they impacted each other are the things that I’ve seen that correlate, I think one of the biggest ones is just the, I think it’s the ability to recognize, you know, problems or challenges, and then just, you know, find solutions and organize people around those solutions, I think, you know, for me, because when I was Bishop, I hadn’t, you know, started my own business yet. I think it impacted probably the things I learned, they’re impacted the way I do business now. And the way I coach calm the way where I help, because, you know, you realize very quickly that, you know, one of the beauties, I think of the church is that we get experiences, and most people don’t get, you know, we get these opportunities to, you know, to be in leadership meetings, you know, as a bishop to lead, you know, lead people and do interviews and really have to be a leader, you know, and so I think, for me, it was, that was one of the big things was just those opportunities to, to utilize those skills in a way that probably wouldn’t have otherwise. You know, otherwise, I think I would have went from working for somebody and working on my own and having to figure those things out, you know, and figure out what, you know, how do you motivate somebody, you know, how do you get somebody to do something, when you really have no control over them. You know, as a business coach, I jump on the phone with people, and I give them ideas, and I point out things and I help them through things, but I can’t do it.
Mark Seiverkropp 07:53
So I mean, I think having that, that experience of having the to motivate and encourage people where there’s no reward for them, other than, you know, I guess, eternal life, or whatever, it’s like, feeling like you’re supporting the mission of the church was was really helpful. And, you know, looking back now, and now that I’m, I’m working on my own, and coaching people, and I’m in a bishopric. Now, and so it’s, it’s, it’s very similar, you know, just that ability, both ways to, you know, see, I think, see problems and just find a solution. I think that’s one of the biggest benefits of being an entrepreneur is that’s kind of our mindset, that’s, that’s the way we go into every day is, you know, there’s an issue, there’s a challenge, there’s something I need, you know, and there’s nobody else to solve it for me, I have to solve it for myself, I can’t go to my manager, I can’t go to my boss, I have to figure it out. And so I think that mindset serves really well in the church too, because, you know, it keeps you from going to your Bishop or going to your priesthood leader and saying, I don’t know what to do, like, this isn’t working, I don’t know what to do you just find a way to do it. And I think that’s really helpful.
Tyson Bradley 08:51
You know, I think you bring up a good point in the sense that I think for, you know, all those members that are listening, it’s like, you don’t realize how much we already are prepared for something like entrepreneurship.
Mark Seiverkropp 09:02
Tyson Bradley 09:03
it’s like the experiences that occur within just being a member of the church are almost like perfectly aligned with the skills that you need to be an entrepreneur to be able to go into a situation to be able to, like receive an assignment to take that and to, you know, magnify it, in the sense of how do we motivate people? How do we delegate how do we solve these challenges? And it’s probably one of the hardest settings.
Mark Seiverkropp 09:29
Tyson Bradley 09:29
because if you can influence in church, you can influence anybody prop like, honestly, because it’s hard to get people to move.
Mark Seiverkropp 09:37
Tyson Bradley 09:37
And for you to learn those skills. I think it’s such a such a strong correlation. I was reading about, you know, in the family proclamation says, along lines of like, you have a divine nature and destiny. Right. And as I was thinking about that, there are so many beliefs that we have in the Gospel that also set us up for success. And one of those is this idea that we have a divine nature and destiny, the divine, this divine nature that, hey, we are, we’ve been made in the image of God and we are like him, our souls are like, never ending, they never looks like they’re eternal. And so in this way, we have this, it’s almost like we have everything we already need. We have all the advantage, all the divine attributes, everything that’s needed for us to be able to progress and to create ideas. It’s like already there. And the only problem is whether or not we want to align with God who wants to reveal that to us, or push against it.
Mark Seiverkropp 10:38
Tyson Bradley 10:39
What do you think?
Mark Seiverkropp 10:40
I think, yes, that and I think the other thing that I’ve noticed is just how much sometimes we want to like, we want to kind of put a box around those things, you know, whether it’s, you know, your patriarchal blessing, or you know, all these things that say, here, here’s the gifts you have, I don’t know about you, but I think it’s really easy for me to read my patriarchal blessing and say, Oh, I have these gifts, Okay, I see how that applies when I’m serving as Bishop or when I’m ministering or in my family, but I don’t as immediately look at it and say, Oh, that’s how this applies in business. But really, I mean, like, the Lord says, you know, there’s never any temporal commandments, everything spiritual, you know, and so that idea that exactly what you’re saying, you know, we’ve been given all these gifts, we’ve been given this divine nature. And, you know, I believe fully and I think this is, you know, one of the things I’m really passionate about is that applies just as much in our professional endeavors as it does in the church building.
Mark Seiverkropp 11:31
And and I think sometimes even more, because, I mean, where else are we influencing and impacting people who aren’t members of the church? Where else are we being missionaries more than in our businesses, you know, and the way that we act and the way that we we interact, the way that we treat our customers, the way that we treat our vendors, you know, whoever it is that we’re interacting with, there’s a much higher probability that those people are going to be not members and need to be influenced and impacted by members of the church than the people walking next to you or passed you in the in the halls of the church. And so I think we we miss out on such an opportunity, you know, to really magnify our responsibilities, if we’re not looking at those skills and those abilities and those gifts that we’ve been given and saying, How can I apply that in my professional responsibilities?
Mark Seiverkropp 12:17
How can I apply that my business because I really believe I think one of my favorite quotes is Elder Gene R. Cook, I heard him say one time that he said, I’m convinced that there is nothing with which you’re concerned that the Lord is not also concerned, what that means to me is if I’m worried about how I’m going to make payroll, or how I’m going to, you know, meet the revenue goals that I need to to be able to provide for my family, that means Heavenly Father is to you know, and I should be looking to him and asking for his help, I should be asking for his guidance, I should be seeking to use my gifts to fulfill those things, rather than putting them in a tiny little box that I opened up on Sunday, before I go to church and putting them back when I go to work on Monday, I should be using those all the time.
Tyson Bradley 12:55
Yeah, I love that. And I think too, that it’s not just about like your talents and your skills, but just recognizing that. It’s kind of like the praying over your flock praying over your fields. You mentioned your dad, being a farmer, it’s like, your field is the work that you do every day. And it’s not just about what you need are your concerns, but I think also your wants, a lot of us think, oh, if I want, you know, I kind of would like a Tesla at some point, you know, and that might be someone might say, Oh, that’s like a vain desire. And, and part of me thinks, well, here’s the thing, if I want to pursue that, you know, what’s gonna be required of me to do that, to create that, that result? Well, it’s gonna require me to level up my ability to market to influence to earn more money, so that I could have something like that. And if I am able to influence more people for good, it’s not like I’m seeking these things to do evil,
Mark Seiverkropp 13:53
Tyson Bradley 13:53
These things to do good. So if it’s a righteous desire, in my mind, the Lord also wants that for me and for you.
Mark Seiverkropp 14:00
So by the way, you’ll pay more tithing, if you generate that income, you know, I mean,
Tyson Bradley 14:05
I know right.
Mark Seiverkropp 14:05
There’s a lot of things like that, that I think we we forget that, again, it’s all tied together, you know, and it’s, I don’t know, that I’ve ever heard anybody say this, but you know, I hear people, you know, even inside the church, and I think actually, members of our church are actually more, I guess, favorable towards being successful than some other denominations. But even inside the church, you hear people, you know, putting down somebody that’s really wealthy or whatever. And it’s like, I look at people, you know, like the the well known members, we know, like, but you know, the Marriott’s and the Huntsman’s and all of them, it’s like, I gotta be honest, they’re 10% does a lot more to move the church forward than my 10% does. And that’s awesome. Like, how awesome is that, that they’re able to do that?
Mark Seiverkropp 14:42
You know, and it’s interesting. I actually had a realization last year at some point that, you know, if my focus is building the kingdom, and that’s really what I try to focus everything on is how can I build the kingdom, whether it’s in my business or at church or in my family, it’s like, you know what, if I set a goal as to how much tithing I wanted to pay, rather Other than a an income, and it’s like it just for me It changed that mindset. And I think it was more just like keeping the negative or the the guilt of oh my gosh, I’m making a lot of money and you know, am I am I focusing on the world? It’s like, No, I’m, I’m saying I want to be able to pay this much in tithing. I think that would be awesome. And just, it completely changed things for me just having that. So it’s like, I really don’t ever think about how much money I want to make anymore. I think about how much I want to pay in tithing. You know, in my budgeting software, I have a goal for my tithing every month, it’s like, this is how much I want to pay, which of course means I have to then make, you know, 10 times that much. But my focus is I really want to pay this much tithing,
Tyson Bradley 15:37
Oh, I love that. It kind of reminds me of I think it’s third Nephi 13:33. It’s like, Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you. And that’s something that I’ve really loved and sought to apply in my own life, just, you know, how can I put Christ first, and then just watch the miracles happen? And so, in the same vein, I love that I think I’m going to steal that because it’s such a neat, just a different way to think about it, which is, which is super helpful. So you know, going back to this business that you’ve created, how long did it take you between like the idea and you like taking action on it?
Mark Seiverkropp 16:19
So if you’re talking about the the mastermind for members of the church part, I mean, it was I mean, the initial, I guess, impetus for it was when I got called this Bishop, so that was like five years. But as far as the actual amount, I mean, I actually took action pretty quickly. I came up with the idea, I think last October, maybe September, October, and almost immediately started reaching out to people and say, Hey, can I jump on a call with you? And you know, just pick your brain and have an idea? And you know, it was just interesting to you and just getting some feedback that way? You know, so I think for me, it was pretty quickly, but part of that’s probably the fact that I’d done several other things. And you know, I had different clients that I was coaching for and doing some of that, but that’s kind of my nature. I don’t know if you’re familiar with like the Colby index, as far as per se. Yeah, yeah.
Mark Seiverkropp 17:04
One of one of the things that it measures is your your quickstart number knows how quickly you take action, and I think mine’s an eight or a nine out of 10. So he usually take action pretty quickly. You know, and then and then where I fall down as follow through, you know, it’s continuing with it and staying motivated. But this is something I think I’ve had a lot of ideas over the years. And I think this one’s stuck more than others. And I think it’s because it really does allow me to marry the things that are most important to me, you know, being the gospel and business, which I think is really important. You know, I don’t know if we’re going to talk about you know, picking ideas, and you know, what you want to do, but for me, that’s one of the biggest ones is something that I’m just naturally interested in, you know, I love studying the gospel, I love, you know, watching conference, I love doing all those things. So to be able to pull that in to what I’m doing day to day makes a huge difference for me. And so I think I think this one, I’ll stick a little bit more than Yeah, the one has,
Tyson Bradley 17:56
yeah. You know, in terms of your other maybe other ideas, what have been maybe what was your start into entrepreneurship? When did you start trying to do your own thing?
Mark Seiverkropp 18:06
So I, let’s see, it was about five, almost six years ago, I had a job, I was working as a commercial underwriter for an insurance company, which is every bit as exciting as it sounds. And for somebody like me, who’s not detail oriented, it’s a really interesting career choice. So I was doing that. And then I had a friend of mine, that that he and I connected three or four years before, we followed the same blog or something, and it commented, and so he and I had been talking and I don’t remember how it came up. But at one time we were talking, he just said, Hey, you know, what would it take to get you to come work with me? And so we I kind of jokingly said, Well, do you mean that are gross? And then we kind of had this conversation. And, you know, within a couple months, I was I was a contractor for him an independent contractor. So that was Yeah, that was six years ago, this coming June is when that happened.
Mark Seiverkropp 19:01
So that was the beginning of it. He was my main client, but I was I mean, I was my own business, I, you know, set up an LLC and invoiced him and had my own insurance and all the things that come along with that. So I think that was that’s about how long that’s where I started and and worked with him. He was my main client for several years and then in the last about year, so I’ve picked up a couple of the clients and actually stopped working with him. He was actually the guy that asked me about whether I could say no to, to Bishop or not. And that was before he and I had started working together about a year before but you know, and so now I’m doing the majority of what I do is coaching you know and that’s that’s really where where my passion lies and just coaching with people and I’ve got a couple of clients that I coach for their their high end programs and I do some coaching on my own and you know now I’m I’m trying to, or I’m wanting to build that that community for members of the church as well, because that’s kind of where my passion is, I think,
Tyson Bradley 19:51
yeah. Did you experience any kind of like early struggles as you were kind of working on building this up, I know that you kind of had this intro into kind of being your own business, thanks to this client, but what were maybe some other challenges that you faced as you went along?
Mark Seiverkropp 20:06
I think the biggest ones for me was just the mindset, the different mindset of, you know, working for yourself, or working for somebody else, you know, even with having one main client, you know, that client was very adamant with me that, you know, he wasn’t my boss, and you know, you, here’s the things we need to get done, but you decide when you want to do it. And I think, you know, so I think for me, it was just, it was really mindset. And it was it was realizing that, you know, I was in control, you know, and I needed to make those decisions. And I think that’s tough. Sometimes just getting out of that mentality, you know, it’s like, Hey, is it okay? If I take tomorrow off, and he would respond and be like, dude, I’m not your boss, like, if your stuff is done, and there’s nothing we need to get done, and you want to go spend time with your family tomorrow, just tell me you’re gonna be gone, I don’t care.
Mark Seiverkropp 20:54
So I think that was one of the biggest ones, it’s just getting into that mindset that, you know, I’m responsible for making these decisions, I’m responsible for whether things work or whether they don’t, you know, another big one was going from, you know, with my last job, I was getting paid every two weeks. And with this new client, it was a once a month retainer. And so that process of Oh, crap, I have to figure out my finances, you know, I can’t, I can’t play this game of Oh, no, all the money’s gone, that’s okay, I get paid in three days, like, that didn’t work anymore. You know, it’s like, if the money’s gone in seven days, I’m screwed for the next three weeks. So I think a lot of it was just, you know, looking back on it now, I really think it was a lot of the same things that the church is teaching in the self reliance programs, you know, just that idea of, you know, you have to be self reliant, you have to make your own decisions.
Mark Seiverkropp 21:40
And I think that ties in Well, with what you’re saying that, you know, we’re, we’re really kind of set up to be entrepreneurs, because, you know, that’s really what the church is telling us, hey, whether you work for somebody, or you don’t work for somebody, you need to be the one responsible for your finances, you need to be responsible for your education, you need to be responsible for these things, because nobody else cares as much. You know, nobody else is as worried about you, as you are. So I think those are the big things. For me the biggest struggles, were just getting out of that mindset of asking, and thinking that somebody else was going to be taking care of that stuff for me.
Tyson Bradley 22:13
Yeah, no, I think that’s super important. And it sounds like your experience, because you had this initial client who’s sounds like he wasn’t a member, he’s asking you about
Mark Seiverkropp 22:24
Tyson Bradley 22:24
why can’t you just say no, that there is a shift for you in being able to pursue, you know, maybe members of that church or, you know, creating a group. And I’m curious, because you mentioned about how to select something. I know that many people out there, they have ideas already. But you know, if they are maybe wondering their idea, and maybe relating to your story of how you get to this point of, Oh, this just really clicks with me.
Mark Seiverkropp 22:54
I think the thing that’s really helped me is, is an idea that I 100% stole from a friend of mine, Richie Norton, by the way, if you haven’t interviewed him, I would highly recommend him.
Tyson Bradley 23:03
Mark Seiverkropp 23:04
Richie for your podcast. He’s fantastic. Yeah. But in his book, The Power of starting something stupid, he talks about the idea of projects. And that’s something that really stuck out to me and something that I’ve used, because, you know, like I said, I’m, I take action quickly, I don’t always follow through. And so the idea with the project is essentially saying, I’m going to do this for this amount of time. And then I’m going to sit back, and I’m gonna look at it and say, is this something I like doing? Did I not like doing it? Did it work? Did it not work? And then moving on, either way, with no judgment? You know, because I think sometimes, and this is something I struggle with, even today, you know, if I come up with an idea, and I do it for a while, and then I stop, you feel guilty, you feel like, oh, maybe I’m not cut out for this, oh, maybe I’m just a failure, I’m just destined to everything doesn’t work, or I can’t stick with something or whatever it is. But the times that I can say to myself, I’m going to do this for this amount of time, and then I’m going to review it and make a decision. Did I like doing it? Did I not like doing it? It takes away that judgment.
Mark Seiverkropp 24:02
And so I think that’s one of the biggest things that I’ve found that’s really helpful is just, you know, especially if you’re trying to jump into doing something on your own, like, understand that, it’s probably not going to be the first idea might not be the second might not be the 10th idea. You know, sometimes it takes a lot. I mean, I’ve had a million different ideas. And I’ve, you know, tried probably dozens of them, and most of them haven’t stuck. And I know, we all hate hearing the stories about Oh, yeah, you know, Colonel Sanders wasn’t successful until he was this old and so on. So wasn’t successful to have that on. I hear those stories. And it’s like, Yeah, but that’s like 15 or 20 years away, and I don’t want to wait that long. You know, it’s like, I don’t have that patience. But at the same time, it’s, it’s, you know, looking back and realizing that it’s just part of the process.
Mark Seiverkropp 24:40
You know, it’s it’s trying things and learning a little bit about yourself learning a little bit about what you like doing or don’t like doing and not giving up on it, you know, not not thinking that somehow you’re not cut out for it just because the first thing didn’t work. You know, and I think that’s, again, that’s that’s a little bit of that entrepreneurial mindset, you know, is looking at failure as feedback rather than You know, some sort of ultimatum on who you are as a human being, which then, you know ties in to what you were talking about with, you know, divine worth, and our identity is realizing that, you know, just because an idea had failed, or, you know, it just didn’t have didn’t interest me anymore, doesn’t mean I’m a terrible human being, or I’m a horrible entrepreneur, or, you know, I’m not, you know, a beloved Son of God, or whatever it is, it’s like, those are separate things, and you have to separate otherwise, you drive yourself crazy. And I know, because I’ve done it. I mean, I’m not perfect at that. This is, this is things I’m learning as I go along. And, and, you know, I’m one of the first ones that get frustrated when things don’t work out. So
Tyson Bradley 25:37
yeah, no, I think it’s important that, you know, at the outside of you, looking to create a business, having the intention to say this is a project, I’m going to try this new thing out. And having an end date, where you just evaluate the whole experience allows you to take a step back, and to see whether or not you want to continue, I think those things that really click are the things that even if you failed, like, I’m still going to try this out, right, I’m still going to figure it’s getting to the point of I’m going to figure this out, whatever it takes. So if a webinar, or an email series, or a, you know, putting my product on a website, and then not selling, or a Facebook or whatever method that you try, I think a lot of times, what’s more, so behind the scenes, that’s not working is your mindset, maybe your disbelief, in it being able to work, I think that makes a large impact on how you how other people perceive you, I kind of think of it as, like a smell, where, you know, if you’re thinking, I don’t know, if this will work, it suddenly impacts the way you show up to whatever thing you’re doing. So whether it’s a webinar, or whether it’s your email, or you know, copy or whatever it is your product that you’re selling, if you’re just like, I don’t know, if this will work, I don’t know if this is really helpful. People are going to sense that, and then they won’t like it.
Mark Seiverkropp 27:14
Tyson Bradley 27:15
you don’t truly believe in it, versus working on that piece of really believing in what you have to offer, really believing that this is valuable. And people being able to sense that from you so that they smell that there’s like, well, he smells good. I want I want more of this, this, this is just like a good meal smells just like oh, man, I want to I want to eat that I want to I want to partake of that. So does that what what do you think about that?
Mark Seiverkropp 27:42
I think as you’re as you’re sharing that I was thinking along similar lines, when you’re talking about oh, this doesn’t work, or that doesn’t work, you know, Seth Godin, his most recent book I just finished listening to. And he talks a lot about separating the result from the process. And he’s like, if you just focus on the process, the result comes or doesn’t come but you don’t get so tied to the result that you give up or you get frustrated, or you put so much emphasis on it that people realize that you don’t smell good, because you’re, you know, worried about that. And, you know, I think about that, and I think about this is something I’ve noticed in the scriptures a lot is the Lord always judges us on our efforts. never buy the result. And we’re never judged by the result.
Mark Seiverkropp 28:21
You know, if you think about, you know, Alma, when he gets kicked out of what is the Ammonite ha, you know, and the angel shows up, and it’s like, the angel doesn’t say, Hey, you know, your conversion rate was really bad. I mean, you didn’t baptize anybody. His only thing was, hey, you did what you were asked to do. And that’s all that matters. And I think it’s the same thing with what we do professionally, if we can get to the point where we do what we do, because that’s what matters to us. The results will take care of themselves. And I can’t remember the exact quote from Seth Godin. I loved it, though. But he essentially said, what would you do? If you knew it? Would? What would you do, even if you knew it would fail? And that’s something that really hit me. And that really impacted me as I was, you know, thinking about this mastermind is, you know, would I do this even if I didn’t make a $ from it? Would I do it? Even if nobody was interested? Yeah. Because I feel so strongly about the importance of taking these gospel aspects and making sure that they are integrated into our businesses.
Mark Seiverkropp 29:20
And I think that’s, that’s really the the question. And that’s a hard question. I gotta be honest, the first time I heard him say that, that’s really hard for us to do, because I think in our culture, we get so tied to the result. And we see the result. And that’s where the frustration comes from, you know, because like you said, we we create a webinar, and and nobody, nobody buys anything, or we put up a sales page and nobody buys and we’re like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. Nothing happened, rather than just this is, you know, looking at and saying this is a message or this is a cause or whatever that I believe in, and I’m going to keep doing it, even if nobody shows up, you know, and, and finding ways to get that message out and to serve people even if nobody pays you $1 you know, and certainly we have to I mean, we have to Be able to feed our families and take care of ourselves. But I think again, it goes back to what you said, which is, you know, if we if we’re seeking to do what Heavenly Father wants us to do, he’s not gonna let us, you know, completely fail, you know, we’re not going to, you know, I’m not saying everything’s going to be rosy and there won’t be times that it’s like, oh, my gosh, I don’t know how I’m gonna buy my next meal.
Mark Seiverkropp 30:17
That will happen sometimes. But yeah, I think in the end, you know, we will be supported, and we will be blessed. And we will have ideas. You know, to give you an example, I think we were talking about before we started recording, but, you know, I had this idea for a mastermind, and I jumped straight into a, you know, a kind of a high end mastermind and a monthly, you know, fairly high cost, and, and it completely flopped. I’ll be 100% honest with you, like, even after, like having conversations with people, and they’re like, Yeah, that’s a great idea. You know, there was three or four people that said, Yeah, man, but then things happened, or it wasn’t the right time. And so they couldn’t do and there was other people that are like, yeah, I can’t afford it. And I think it would have been so easy for me to just give up on it. And I’ll be honest, there was times that I felt like it. I mean, I spent like a week where I was just like, miserable. Because it’s like, oh, my gosh, this is what I’m supposed to do.
Mark Seiverkropp 31:01
And it’s not working. And why does it Why can’t I find people and all these things, but what I’ve realized, since it’s led me down this path of Okay, why don’t I create a free mastermind that does the same thing, you know, at a less intimate level, and, you know, less, you know, obviously, you know, people that aren’t as committed and some that are are, but really, it’s how can I still do what I wanted to do? How can I still gather, you know, men who are members of the church and business owners, and still serve them in that way? And I don’t know that I ever would have gotten to that point. Had I filled that first group right away? You know, I don’t know that I ever would have created that. And so it’s, it’s interesting how separating myself from that outcome and just saying, what is it that I really want to do? You know, what would I do? Even if I knew I would fail, which, hey, by the way, I did fail. So Alright, we’re there. You know, what, what I still do. And I think that’s it. It’s changed that mindset for me, that’s helped me to, you know, separate myself from those results and realize that it’s the effort, you know, it’s the effort, it’s what would you do? Regardless, you know, what matters to you so much that you’re going to do it no matter what,
Tyson Bradley 32:04
you know. And I think to just those things that naturally you are interested in, you know, that it doesn’t even have to be a noble cause I know people that they want to start a real estate business, they love flipping houses, or they like, you know, just, for some reason, there’s something in which you like, and love and would do, even if you failed. And so I think part of the joy is just opening up to that, and spending time on it and actually watching it move forward. Because you never know whether the idea that you have just leads to something better. Just like your experience of, Okay, I tried this out, I really felt connected to this. And it’s not working the way that I’d like it to. But it led me to the next thing. And I think when we just focus on what is that next thing? And what do I feel inspired to do now, based upon the reaction of this thing, or based upon what the market might say? It’s like, okay, what’s next? Well, market is saying, We want a free group, or I’m just going to try it. This is my new project, and we’re going to evaluate it then. And now. And then as I iterate naturally, what occurs is so much learning and in so much opportunity for growth as well.
Mark Seiverkropp 33:24
I think there’s so much we can learn about, you know, the way, you know, maybe answers the prayers or revelation work, too, because as you were talking about that, I realized that, you know, that that higher end mastermind, I think it’s still on the table, I think, I think the response or what I got from it was not right now, you know, maybe that’s what what’s gonna happen in a year after I, you know, build up this free one or the lower end one, or whatever it is. And I think it’s, it’s similar to the way we look at answers to prayers, you know, sometimes it’s just sometimes it’s no, sometimes it’s, I don’t know, what do you think? And sometimes it’s a Not right now, like, later, like, just just be patient. And I think it’s really, I mean, in some ways, figuring out what you want to do is a process of Revelation, you know, and I really think we would all do well, to probably pray a little bit more about it, you know, and bounce ideas off Heavenly Father and say, Hey, what do you think about this, and this is what I’m planning on doing.
Mark Seiverkropp 34:11
And this is how it, you know, utilizes my skills or my abilities. And, you know, I think sometimes we would do well, to do that more, you know, and I think that’s one of the things that I see in my life that I don’t do that enough. You know, I think about talking to friends, I think about reading books, I think about listening to podcasts, but man did I think about praying about it, you know, did I think about asking a friend to give me a blessing if I’m really struggling with an idea. I mean, I don’t know why we don’t do those things, but at least I don’t really, you know, it’s not my natural tendency. But I think that’s kind of where, you know, I think Heavenly Father’s kind of knocked me upside the head a couple times where it’s like, Look, why are you not asking for my help? Why are you not asking for my opinion, you know, you’re asking everybody else. That’s mine.
Tyson Bradley 34:50
I love that. And you know, it’s interesting because even within the last couple weeks, I just barely initiated like a half hour block to begin. Have my work day. I call it Christ time. And the whole purpose is just that. It’s just like, what would that have me do? Like, I’m actually just going to dedicate some time to you. And let’s see where it goes. And sometimes, I mean, even this morning, it was kind of doing some ideation, I was just like, I should reread some of this book, atomic habits. So you should reread a little bit of that just like, Look, I wonder why. So it’s like, I started reading, and I wanted to really understand more about identity and things like that as a moving cause to create new habits and change behavior. And so it’s little things like that, that we just don’t give time for to listen, as though God is your business partner and who’s like, Who better have a business partner to have?
Mark Seiverkropp 35:51
Yeah, you know, it makes me realize, I know, a while ago, I was telling a friend of mine that, you know, if we believe that all principles are eternal, and we do that, you know, as I’m, you know, I think back that one of my favorite scriptures, and maybe it’s because it makes me feel like it gives me the kick in the rear that I need is, you know, Doctrine and Covenants where the Lord says, you know, and nothing does man offend me, except for when he doesn’t acknowledge my hand and all thing. And it’s like, if I’m reading atomic habits, or I’m reading some book, and I see some principle, I just wondered, it’s like, how much more would I get out of it? If I identify and say, Oh, my gosh, that’s this, this gospel principle, like, Oh, this is what this is what the Lord teaches in Doctrine and Covenants are it’s what, you know, this is what Alma taught and the Book of Mormon and tying them together like that, because I think, yeah, a lot of times, it’s really just, you know, I mean, I came up with this whole idea for the free mastermind. Last week, I was driving, I was running an errand. I was driving for like an hour.
Mark Seiverkropp 36:47
And it was just like, all of a sudden, this download, it was like, Oh, my gosh, I could do this. And then it would lead to this. And I could do this. And it would lead to this. And, and this would work. And it was like, as you were talking just now I just realized, like, you can’t tell me that wasn’t the Spirit. The only way we get downloads of information is through the Spirit, whether people want to admit it, and call it that or not. But you and I know that that’s where those things come from. And it’s like, until this point, four days ago, when I had those thoughts. It took me till right now to say, Oh my gosh, that wasn’t my ideas. That wasn’t because I was listening to some book, that was the spirit. Like the Spirit said, here’s what you need to do. And here’s how you need to do it. How many times is that happen? And we don’t identify that. And we don’t stop and say, Wow, thanks, Heavenly Father, that’s amazing. Like, I never would have thought of that on my own.
Tyson Bradley 37:32
Mark Seiverkropp 37:33
You know, it’s I think we keep ourselves from so many blessings, both professionally, and in our personal lives and our families. Because we don’t do that single thing. We don’t stop and say, Oh, that’s a gospel principle. Oh, that’s what the Spirit taught me. Wow, I just received revelation. That’s really cool. You know, it’s, I think I know, I miss out on a lot of stuff, because I don’t make that connection.
Tyson Bradley 37:59
Yeah, you know, in my mind, it brings up just the idea of how can I just seek for God’s hand and things like, acknowledge God’s influence in all the books that I read or acknowledge God’s influence in all these righteous principles that are being taught in different ways. And so another thing that you said, reminded me of how, so often the experience of you know, men in the church especially is you get home from the mission, and all of a sudden, there’s just this loss of purpose, and loss, also, just there is this decrease of the spirit and you’re not as engaged, there’s not as many miracles as you experienced on the mission.
Tyson Bradley 38:49
And in my mind, I, I’ve just been thinking more. So I believe that whatever’s within you to create that is your new mission. And when you start pursuing that, I believe you will start to see more miracles. I think there’s some more often than not, we’re looking back to the mission as the place where miracles happened. And the day to day living now is bland, and not filled with amazing things. And so as you start to engage with this, you know, with these ideas and start to build upon what you really love, I think that the Lord is gonna find ways to help you magnify to help you see the miracles that are available as you start acting on them.
Mark Seiverkropp 39:40
Oh, yeah, I think 100% I think the lack of purpose and a lack of focus causes so many issues. And you’re right, I mean, I mean, I thought that I remember the few days after my mission sitting there and just be like, I have no purpose. Like my purpose used to be to help others come into Christ by accepting you know, it’s like, I could just like recite it was like, that’s not me anymore. Oh my gosh. What am I gonna do? And then it was interesting because when I got called as Bishop, I remember vividly a member that I had been friends with forever in my ward. And he was like, all of a sudden talking to me like I was like, the next prophet or something. He’s like, oh, Mark is so now all sorry, Bishop Bishop, so smart and so spiritual and does all these things. And I’m just sitting there thinking, the exact same person I was a month ago, you know, and all of these things that I did, because I had this purpose, again, the thing I realized was, I could have been doing those all along. Like there was nothing about I mean, there is a mental 100%, there is something about it, for sure. But 90% 99% of it really comes down to what I chose to do.
Mark Seiverkropp 40:39
And the and how seriously, I took what my new mission was, and I could have had that all the time. You’re absolutely right, I could have had that if I would have been that focused. And that determined to make a difference in the world. I could have had that, you know, it wasn’t, it’s not like now I’m bishop. So Oh, now I get to listen to the saints channel for three hours a day, because I couldn’t do that before, you know, Oh, now I can read my scriptures. Because I couldn’t do that before. It’s like, it’s always there. You know, you always have those opportunities to have those miracles, we always have those options that have the spirit. But you’re right, I think it’s it really comes down to you know, if you don’t have a definite goal or a definite purpose, it’s hard for the spirit to really give you inspiration. And compound that inspiration, because you’re always bouncing from one thing to another, or you’re always just, you know, complaining and saying, Oh, poor me, I don’t really know what to do. I don’t have a purpose.
Mark Seiverkropp 41:26
But it’s like, just that idea of having that definite purpose. You know, I love Napoleon hills stuff. Because He always talks about that definite purpose and knowing what you want to do. And really, I think that’s what it comes down to is, you know, if you can indicate to Heavenly Father, this is the direction I want to go in and want to do it because I want to make a difference in the world and make an impact in people’s lives and serve my family and have more time freedom to serve in the church, or whatever it is all those good things. Now Heavenly Father’s like, okay, that’s something I can work with. All right, let’s give you some inspiration. And now that you still have that purpose next week, I can give you inspiration that compounds the inspiration you got last week, rather than starting over, you know, because we’re not sure what we want to do.
Tyson Bradley 42:06
Right now. I love that. It sounds like you’ve thought a lot about just the integration of gospel in business. I’m curious about any other things that you think would be helpful to share for an audience that’s like, Hey, we, we want to build a business. And we think it’d be awesome. What we’re struggling to get going,
Mark Seiverkropp 42:26
Oh, what would I say? I think it’s really, for me, it’s been, the biggest struggle I’ve had is the, I guess, a poor mindset about money, and making money and being successful. But I think it’s somehow I’ve been raised, I mean, I didn’t grow up in the church. So it’s not like it was like, Oh, this is the way I was taught in the church. But I think we all struggle with a little bit because there really is this idea, I think, even in our culture in our society, that somehow it’s bad. And, you know, I’ve spent a lot of time and I think the most impactful thing I’ve done is I’ve spent a lot of time really just asking that question, and searching the scriptures and seeing what, you know, apostles and prophets have said, I mean, some of the things, you know, it seems like it’s always a crapshoot, sometimes what Brigham Young said, but he’s got some really good stuff.
Mark Seiverkropp 43:10
He says on this about as far as essentially saying, what we’ve been talking about, you know, if if you’re if your sole purpose is to go to the Lord and say, I want to do exactly what you want me to do, you know, Brigham Young says, you will have everything you want. You know, as long as every single decision you make, you’re saying, what you know exactly what you said in your, you know, your morning times, you know, what would you have me do? You know, what do you want me to do in my business today? What, what can I do to serve more people? What can I do to share the gospel, and I think, getting over the fact or realizing that it’s okay to be successful. You know, it’s okay to make money. It’s, you know, the Lord is not looking down upon people that make money because let’s be honest, you know, they’re, you know, 30 minutes from me, they’re building Moses Lake Washington temple, and that’s not going to be cheap, you know, that the Lord needs people that are successful, to pay their tithing, then he needs those people, you know, and it’s the same thing and serving in the church, you know, it’s a lot harder to serve in certain callings.
Mark Seiverkropp 44:07
If you don’t have time freedom, you know, if you don’t have the ability to make those decisions, it’s a lot harder, you know, I mean, look at, I mean, one of my goals is to be successful enough that should the Lord decide that he wants me to, you know, be a mission president or do something like that, that I can do it. You know, I think it would be sad, if we miss out on those opportunities, because we didn’t utilize our physical resources, you know, our, our mental resources in a way that allow us to have those responsibilities because I mean, you look at it, it’s like to live your entire life for three years. You can’t be poor, like, you have to be fairly financially secure. And so, for me, it’s just realizing that money isn’t a hindrance, it really does allow me to serve better in the kingdom. It allows me to serve in a different way. Not that there’s anything wrong with anybody that isn’t financially secure. You know, I’m not saying that but I really believe believe that if the Lord wants us to be successful in life, that one of those areas is our finances and our professional responsibilities.
Mark Seiverkropp 45:07
So I think as somebody who’s looking at starting a business, I think it’s realizing that that’s okay. And I think a lot of us probably have some mental blocks around being successful that we don’t even know we have. I know, I didn’t, you know, it took me a long time, you know, it took me well past 30, to realize that, oh, wow, everybody in my family has only made about the most they’ve made is like $70,000. And people that make more than that are greedy, or they, they’re making money off other people. And it’s like, it took me a long time to realize that that was impacting me. And I started looking at, it’s like, wow, for five or six years in a row, I’ve made like, $70,000 Hmm. You know, and there’s something to that. So,
Mark Seiverkropp 45:48
I think that’s one of the things I would say is, it’s really, it’s really mindset, and I think for members of the church, especially if we can, if we can get past the surface, you know, things in the scriptures where it’s like, you know, it’d be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven and immediately think, Oh, my gosh, I don’t want to be rich, then, you know, it doesn’t have to be either or, you know, you look at all the leaders have been, you know, good with their finances, at the very least, but they’ve all been successful in business, or their profession, or whatever they’ve done. And those things carry over, you know, success in the church equates to, you’ve been successful in other areas of your life, too, because they’re eternal principles, and you apply them everywhere. You know, you look in the Scriptures, you know, Abraham wasn’t poor, you know, Joe wasn’t poor. It’s like all these people, when they live the gospel, they naturally are going to be blessed. And they’re going to apply those same principles to living, you know, building their businesses or their livelihood. So I think that’s, for me, that was the biggest thing, that was the thing that made the difference is just really understanding, you know, what the Lord really does say, and that he does want us to be successful, he does want us to be happy, you know, if you want a Tesla, he wants you to have a Tesla, by golly, that’s okay.
Mark Seiverkropp 47:01
You know, as long as you’re not worshiping your Tesla, that’s right. Right, you know, as long as it’s as long as you love your Tesla, because it’s, it’s really comfortable to get to church on Sunday to fulfill your calling, or whatever. It’s like, we can use all of those things to build the kingdom. And I think having that mindset is, you know, one of the biggest not having it, I guess, is one of the biggest inhibitors of being successful in business is, you know, you’re just fighting against yourself. If one part of your mind is saying, you know, God doesn’t want me to be successful, or rich people are bad or rich people are, you know, greedy. And then you go to try to build a business, well, guess what’s going to happen? You’re not going to be successful. But if you can marry the two, and realize that, yeah, heavenly father does want you to be successful in all aspects of your life. And by being successful, you can do more to serve in the Gospel, and build the kingdom and all those things. Now, you’re now you’re harnessing the power of powers of heaven, to your benefit, rather than fighting against them kicking against the pricks? I think it’s phrased in the script.
Tyson Bradley 48:03
Yep. Oh, that is so good. So Mark, if I mean, is there anything else that you think would be important to share before we kind of close up here? Anything else that’s on your mind that you want to?
Mark Seiverkropp 48:15
I don’t think so. I think those are the those are the main things. I mean, I think it’s really, you know, whatever you decide to do, it’s seeking the Lord, you know, asking yourself asking his opinion, asking his feedback, because they’ll give it to you, you know, and, you know, just like everything else we’ve talked about, you know, if you say, Hey, I’m supposed to start a business, there could be the prompting that this isn’t the time, you know, or, you know, this isn’t the opportunity, or this isn’t the idea. And it’s just really having that mindset of, you know, what would you have me do? And always saying, This is what I think I’m supposed to do. What do you think, you know, and just really trying to follow those promptings? And I think if we all did, that, we’d probably be more successful in our businesses and our professions than we currently are.
Tyson Bradley 48:59
Awesome. Yeah. So if people want to learn more about you, where would you Where would you send them?
Mark Seiverkropp 49:05
Well, I haven’t even set up this link. But by the time this goes live, I’m sure it’ll be set up because I’m going to set
Tyson Bradley 49:09
Mark Seiverkropp 49:10
we get done. But, you know, I would love to have anybody that’s interested in business, join that free mastermind, you know, I think it’d be fun to to connect with him there and do that. So let’s, uh, let’s just say Seiverkropp.com forward slash trying to think of masterminds used already. Can I say LDS mastermind Would that be okay, I
Tyson Bradley 49:29
do that. I’ll put the link in the, you’ll see the link in the show notes.
Mark Seiverkropp 49:37
Yeah, for his last Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day. mastermind. All of it. We’ll put it all in there. I love yes mastermind. With that and I’d love to have you there like I said, completely free and we’ll do we’re gonna be doing monthly mass hotseat masterminds and, and just, you know, helping each other build their businesses. So
Tyson Bradley 49:56
you guys have the rest assured that I’ll be there. So I’m excited for Anything that mark is building. And if you want to learn more about what he’s doing, and definitely suggest you, you know, go and get the link and get in that group, because just being around like minded people, and if you want to business, being able to hear other people, especially of our faith, there’s something unique about what we go through. That’s different than anything else out there. And being able to tie these principles together, just like we’ve done in this podcast. So go and seek seek out mark. And last question for you, Mark. I’m going to change this up because I feel like building a business brings us closer to Christ. But I’m curious, how do you hear him in your life?
Mark Seiverkropp 50:44
That’s the that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? You know, I, I guess this is a roundabout way of answering it. But I realized when I was Bishop that hearing the Lord, hearing revelation is really like learning to speak another language. And it takes a lot of time. You know, I think for me, I hear him more just in my thoughts when I’m not really thinking, if that makes sense. You know, when it’s I’m zoning out, because I’m listening to a podcast, or I’m listening to a book, like I said, I mean, I was driving the other day. And all of a sudden, I just had this download, but it’s usually thoughts in my mind. Every once in a while, I feel like I you know, I hear a voice in my mind, it’s very clear what the words are. But most of the time, it’s just, it’s my thoughts, you know, and, and I subscribed very strongly to the Matthew Cowley quote, where he says, you know, what is it? preparation is prerequisite to inspiration. And I think the more that I’m learning, the more that I’m, I’m filling my mind with good things, whether that’s, you know, self development, or business or the scriptures or general conference talks. As I do that, it seems like I always have impressions later. You know, and I really think it comes down to what does it seek learning out of the best books, you know, and
Mark Seiverkropp 51:58
and seeking inspiration from anywhere? And then, you know, just pondering on it. I think it really, as I do that, it’s just thoughts in my mind. It’s, it’s impressions I get,
Tyson Bradley 51:58
Tyson Bradley 52:09
I love that night, and I experienced much of the same. So, so much, just appreciate all that you’ve shared mark, this has been super helpful. And as people kind of Listen, definitely check out Mark what Mark’s got going on. And we’ll we’ll link it all. And that be? That’s it. All right. So thank you all for joining us. And we’ll we’ll keep in touch later. Sound good.
Mark Seiverkropp 52:33
All right. Thanks for having me.
Tyson Bradley 52:35
Tyson Bradley 52:37
That was a great interview with Mark Seaver crop. And one thing that I want to highlight, I love the question that he asked. In the middle of it. He said, you know, what would you do? If even if you knew you’d fail? Which is an interesting question, because if the business you want to create and the value you want to create, if it would help just one person? Would you still do it? If all that would happen is you you gain knowledge and resources and connections with people. And it puts you on a trajectory that allows you to create the business you’ve always wanted to have and the dream life you’ve always wanted to have. Would that be worth it? Is the value on Cree is? Is that something that you would even be willing to fail at? And I think that’s an important question to consider. And as something when I think about my clients, and when I think about this step, and this skill that I try and help my clients create a lot of what we talked about with Mark relates to the pillar and the skill of becoming a servant CEO. Now, this pillar, it’s, it’s about understanding, you know your story, it’s about understanding how you can just go out there and serve in a way that gives value to people and that it’s not about the result, it is about the process. It is about the learning that comes along the way that enables you to build whatever business it is. So as we focus on believing in any and every goal that we achieve, and then as we work towards it, and, you know, building a process along the way, like the time bending aspect of the, of this coaching of this path of Honor, this, this is the way this is the way in which you can create a business and learn from it, and iterate and pivot and eventually get to your goal. It’s kind of like it’s kind of like when you go to a store, and there’s plenty of stop lights along the way. You always know that you’re going to get there, you always know that you’re going to get to the end result that you really want the happy ending the, the, the day when you have your own business, you have left the day job, you have more time than ever before with your family. You also have time for hobbies and create a schedule that you love. That’s a given that’s coming. Now, there’s going to be stoplights. But just because they’re stoplights or just because there might be a detour along the way that you have to take. We’re still going to get there. And that’s what I tell my clients do is work on their mindset, work on their marketing. We’re Gone their time, so that they can make that a reality. So that is something that interests you. Then go to entrepreneurs of christ.com and sign up for a free discovery call. I don’t know how long I’ll keep these going, depending on how many people sign up. And if you’re the first ones, then you will get the benefit of seeing this becomes something amazing and you realizing your dreams. So go to entrepreneursofChrist.com and we’ll talk to you then. Bye
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