Listen in on my conversation with Zach Spafford, a life coach dedicated to helping men overcome their addiction to pornography.
He became a life coach in 2019 and within a year made over $100k, all while being the father of 8 kids.
Zach’s story will help you see the importance of becoming highly uncomfortable to build a successful business. His story highlights the skills needed to get out there and make things happen.
This is an entrepreneur’s Oh Christ podcast for men of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who know they want to start a business. But things keep getting in the way. Things like not enough time, things like that I want to take the risk to go out on my own things like my family want to prove. Who knows. But the thing is, you have a dream, you want to be able to create it, you want to make it happen. You want to create freedom for yourself, you want to create a business, and this is what this podcast is all about. And I’ve got a special treat for you today. This is an interview that I did with Zack Spafford. And he is a coach that focuses on helping men overcome their addiction to pornography. And the thing about this kind of interview and just his experience is it’s such a problem. And I know about this problem, I’ve experienced this problem. And I’ve he, he wasn’t my coach, but I have had coaching for this kind of thing. And I’ll tell you that there is actually a lot of similarities between overcoming pornography and building a business when you may not think that initially, but within this interview, that’s what you’ll discover. Something else that you’ll find within this interview is Zack talks a lot about just being willing to experience discomfort. And that is a key ingredient to really achieving any goal that you desire. And I think it’s important that we learn this skill and for you to be able to kind of hear it from his own words, to understand what that’s like, and how’s it that you can live through experience and allowed us comfort, and continue to pursue what it is that you want. So we’re gonna dive in here. It’s going to be some good takeaways that you have from this interview. But here is Zach Spafford. Hi, everybody, this is Tyson Bradley. And I’m here with Zack Spafford. And he is a fellow coach in within the life coaching world, and one of his specialties is actually helping men overcome the addiction of pornography. And I think that everything that he has shared, as I’ve, you know, listened to him, as I’ve learned from from him, and checked out his experience. There’s, there’s so much value there. And I wanted to have him on here to kind of share not only his experience with, you know, pornography, I think we might even touch on that, Zach. But I think much
Zack Spafford 03:03
When you’ve got me in the room, talking about porn,
Tyson Bradley 03:07
but also just even your entrepreneurial journey, because at some point in time in your life, you thought, hey, I’d like to do my own thing. And I think what would be neat is if you could just share, you know, when did you first know that you wanted to be an entrepreneur?
Zack Spafford 03:25
Yeah, so I was working for the number three insurance company in the country, on the on the corporate side, for probably 10 years. And as I saw, you know, what am I one of the things that I did there is I coached insurance agents, I helped them run their businesses. And I helped coach them through the process of starting a business and running a business and being clear about you know, goals and targets and how they were going to actually execute on all of the things that needed to be done so that they could be successful as insurance agents, because not every insurance agent is successful. You see a lot of them who fail pretty quickly in the process. And so that was that was what I was doing. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I don’t like working for the man.
Tyson Bradley 04:09
Zack Spafford 04:11
And it actually it really, it actually started with the idea that I came to probably in my late 20s, where, which was, no one in this country gets wealthy by working for someone else. When you look at the most wealthy people in this country, they own something. So they own a business. They own property, they own something. Yeah, they own stocks, they own bonds, or they work for themselves. Right. They own a company. They own a an organization that they run, they own an idea, whatever that is.
Tyson Bradley 04:40
Zack Spafford 04:41
And I thought my The only way for me to get to a place of real wealth in this world is to start owning things.
Tyson Bradley 04:50
Zack Spafford 04:51
And you know, I own a house but you know, you live in your own house that you own, that’s actually technically a liability. It’s not an asset. So it came to me. And as I worked through the corporate ranks of Farmers Insurance, getting promotion after promotion, you know, a six figure salary and a five figure bonus, and a company car and an expense account and all those things that traveled and I did all the things that you’re supposed to want to do.
Tyson Bradley 05:14
Zack Spafford 05:15
And I didn’t, I enjoyed it. But now there came this moment I was working for this guy in California was working that California is a pretty big area for this particular company that I worked for. And one of the people that was my boss called a meeting on a Thursday, and we spent about 12 hours in this meeting. And I had worked with like our Board of Governors enough to know that basically, this guy was asking us to put together a plan for a capital expenditure that he he didn’t have. So when I say a capital expenditure that he didn’t have, what I mean is, you would have to go to the Board of Governors, above the CEO, essentially, and ask for $50 million, or whatever to do this. And we spent 13 hours of our day doing something that was literally a waste of time. Because this guy wanted to show his boss, he wanted to put on a dog and pony show for his boss. Now I’m doing something, even though I knew and he knew, and everybody else knew that it wasn’t going anywhere. So he brought in, you know, I think there were like, 30 of us employees in that particular zone. And we spent 12-13 hours that day, the very next Monday. So, you know, four days later, yeah. And really two days later, if you don’t count the weekend, we spent another four hours on it. 16 full hours in a meeting and I was like, You know what? Sick two full days worth of productivity.
Tyson Bradley 06:46
Zack Spafford 06:46
This guy to put a dog and pony show on for somebody that this is not going anywhere. We all know, it’s not going anywhere. But it’s just the dog and pony show. And I was like, I think it’s time. I think it’s time for me to go be the boss. It’s time for me to just like step away from this corporate life. And be like, you know what? I’m going to go be an insurance agent. That was my launch, I launched into I became an insurance agent. I was, yeah, I wasn’t needle nose net. Right from you remember? Groundhog Day, right? Let’s talk about life insurance. Right? That was me for a little while. And I loved it. I loved working with clients, and I loved you know, solving their problems and helping them get to where they needed to be. But But I still was kind of working for somebody.
Tyson Bradley 07:25
Zack Spafford 07:26
cuz in that world, you have, like, corporate overlords, which I was one of, you know, previously. And then we sold the agency. And we went to work for ourselves. We had a big idea. It was a big, big idea. We were gonna sell the days.
Tyson Bradley 07:43
There you go.
Zack Spafford 07:44
It was huge. It was gonna be amazing. Then we imported the days and we like tripled our money. It was good. But it wasn’t really it wasn’t like making us rich. The volume wasn’t there, right? Americans, you gotta like resell them on how to clean their darier I think that’s like the nicest way I could probably
Tyson Bradley 08:01
Zack Spafford 08:03
Then I had a million dollar idea. And my neighbor and I, we got together and he’s like, come work for me. I’m like, you can’t afford me. He’s like, come work for me. I will fund this idea. And we’re gonna make a million bucks every year, the next, you know, forever. And then his other business died. And he was all the money. Right? And this was this moment. This was this like, beautiful moment where clarity. Just crude was like seeped it.
Tyson Bradley 08:31
Zack Spafford 08:32
And we had literally I’m not kidding. You literally just got back from Jody Moore’s biebel masters. Up in Spokane. We spent a week with Jody.
Tyson Bradley 08:42
Zack Spafford 08:43
And we had, like I said, I’m not kidding. You. Literally, we had arrived, maybe three or four hours earlier. This was a Sunday morning. I stayed up, I went to church. And on my way home from church, I just was chatting with my friend. We’re neighbors. We’re here in Utah. So you know, everybody you go to church with like, you can see them from your front door.
Tyson Bradley 09:01
Zack Spafford 09:02
And he’s like, Hey, I can’t fund our project anymore. And I was like, Oh, boy. So Mother’s Day. This is Mother’s Day. 2019 I became a life coach. Like that. And all of a sudden, it was like, because on our way home from Jody, my wife was like, you should be the coach, and you should help men do this. I think it’ll be good. And yeah, it was like, Oh, this is mine.
Tyson Bradley 09:26
So because everything that had occurred. I mean, you had done the life insurance business. You had gone on your own as a life insurance agent.
Zack Spafford 09:34
I was like, General like I did everything but
Tyson Bradley 09:36
You just did everything. Was that still something that you were doing? Or was that
Zack Spafford 09:40
Tyson Bradley 09:40
Zack Spafford 09:41
We sold that all that. other businesses? Yep.
Tyson Bradley 09:45
You did the the days. 10 years. Like we’re not doing that anymore.
Zack Spafford 09:48
Tyson Bradley 09:49
Here’s this project. Great friend. Let’s do it. And now, that’s not it. That wasn’t not not happening.
Zack Spafford 09:55
I mean, that still runs in the background of my life. Like it’s still there, and I make money from it.
Tyson Bradley 10:00
Zack Spafford 10:01
but I don’t focus on it at all
Tyson Bradley 10:03
Right. So now there you are. And you have this idea to be a coach.
Zack Spafford 10:09
Yeah. Think about this. Can you imagine like, you know, someone coming up to you and be like, hey, let me tell you, you’re going to be a coach. In five years, you’re going to be a life coach. And the only life coach that you know is Tony Robbins. And you’re like, I’m not Tony Robbins. Ever. And then, because like, he’s big and tall, and I’m not very tall. Yeah, super muscular. He’s got that gravelly voice that makes you want to do whatever he tells you. Right? Yeah. Like you feel like when you’re with Tony Robbins, everything is possible. And you can absolutely run through walls. And I’m not Tony Robbins. I’m just not much different than Tony Robbins. So yeah. And then add on top of, hey, you’re going to be a life coach, which you barely know anything about. And you’re going to talk about porn,
Tyson Bradley 10:53
Zack Spafford 10:54
Which by the way, was like your deepest, darkest, shameful process of growth in your entire life.
Tyson Bradley 11:01
Zack Spafford 11:02
Yeah. And then I was like, Okay, I’m all in, let’s do this. Let’s make this happen.
Tyson Bradley 11:06
So when you first begin that journey, what was I guess, the most challenging for you? Because a lot of times when people first start on any idea, the biggest challenges are, you know, getting clients, like, how do I get my first clients time? I’m managing 50 other things, how I create time for that. And then sometimes for people, it’s like, capital, how do I like have the money to be able to fund something like this? So for you? Oh,
Zack Spafford 11:35
That’s a good question. Yeah. Clients was the actual, real problem.
Tyson Bradley 11:41
Zack Spafford 11:42
So let me just tell you time I had all the time in the world.
Tyson Bradley 11:45
Zack Spafford 11:45
Because I had just got essentially cancelled from my other projects, my friend or my backer had said, Hey, I can’t fund this anymore. through no fault of his own. I mean, we just were like, okay, it is what it is. But he did give me a generous severance. So I did have and I love him for that. He’s my, he’s my neighbor. He’s my neighbor right now, actually. Right very far away. So. And I love him for that. And I’m so grateful to him for that he is an entrepreneur on his in his own right. And it was just one of those things where it’s like, Okay, I got all the time in the world. I’ve got enough money. And when I say enough, you know, when you have eight children, there’s never enough money. But at least maybe that’s just a thought. But it is difficult to think that there is enough money all the time, when you have a kids, let me just say that. But what I didn’t have was clients, I didn’t have anybody who knew who I was,
Tyson Bradley 12:33
Zack Spafford 12:33
I didn’t have anybody who was like, Hey, I know you had a problem, and you fixed it. Let me come to you. And so it started this love of marketing. It started this process of being like, Oh, you know what, no matter what, the only thing I need to do is tell people I’m here, I need people to know I’m here. And the first thing I did was I talked to every coach I could at the Life Coach School. I was like, Hey, this is me. This is what I do. Do you know me? Let me tell you about me. You tell me about you. Like I just, you know, we call it networking. But really what it is, is this conversation about this is who I am, this is who you are, let’s talk, let’s be friends. If there’s somebody that needs your work, let me let me send them to you. And if there’s somebody that needs my work, you send them to me. Great, perfect. Yeah. And I started that. And then I went into Facebook, and I just learned Facebook. And I was like, I don’t know anything about this. Yeah, and I have this great ad, I have a great ad that runs at about $2 per lead, which that’s fairly decent, at least by the standards that I understand.
Tyson Bradley 13:34
Zack Spafford 13:35
And we just keep cranking on it. And we keep cranking on it, we keep cranking on it. And I learned how to market myself. And people respond to this message. And the message is simple, right? I had a problem. You still have a problem. I can help you fix that. Now, people want that. People want that all day long. And it doesn’t matter if you’re talking about porn, or you’re talking about the days or the days. It was the same thing. Right? It was like, I had a problem. I had to wipe my butt.
Tyson Bradley 14:02
Zack Spafford 14:04
You have a problem. You still have to let me help you solve that problem. And people are like, oh, okay, let’s try that out. I did have for a little while. I still had some inventory left. And when the pandemic hit, and nobody had any toilet paper. I got my phone started ringing off the hook. It was kind of insane.
Tyson Bradley 14:20
Yeah. All of a sudden is like, hey, what else do I do to to wipe the derriere?
Zack Spafford 14:26
Yeah, they were getting paper towels. And that wasn’t helping.
Tyson Bradley 14:28
Yeah. Now. What made you decide? Decide porn? coaching?
Zack Spafford 14:34
Yeah, so it’s kind of fun. Because, you know, we’re like, Hey, I’m a porn coach. And people like, wait, what side? Are you?
Tyson Bradley 14:41
Zack Spafford 14:41
How does this work? Is this like, I tell you how to do it right? Or we tell people how to stop doing it.
Tyson Bradley 14:48
Zack Spafford 14:49
So for me, it was the passion project that I had been thinking about. It was this like, I’m gonna make a million bucks doing this thing over here. But in the meantime, something that can help me I just feel like I’m contributing to the world. I was like, I gotta do something that makes me feel good about who I am and how I, you know, show up in the world and give back to people as best I can.
Tyson Bradley 15:11
Zack Spafford 15:12
And porn was the obvious choice, because I had struggled with pornography, it had been, you know, a 25 year struggle from the time I was eight. Until, you know, 25 years later was that 30 35 34, something like that?
Tyson Bradley 15:26
Zack Spafford 15:27
And I was like, this is something I can help people with. And I had been doing it somewhat informally. Over the years. You know, Darcy and I are fairly open. One of the things that is true for us is that we do not like to pretend that we’re perfect.
Tyson Bradley 15:43
Zack Spafford 15:45
So, you know, if somebody mentions anything like a struggle, we’re like, hey, let me tell you about our struggle. It’s porn, which within the church, you know, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, just in case president Nelson’s listening to your podcast.
Tyson Bradley 15:58
Zack Spafford 15:59
That’s, that’s a big, like, shame fast.
Tyson Bradley 16:03
Zack Spafford 16:04
If you look at porn, you’re basically a serial killer in everybody’s minds. And so people would come to us and they’d be like, hey, can can you help me? Can you help me understand, you know, what you did, and how that’s working for you, and how we can approach this differently. And we’ve been doing it for a while. And I was just like this. And as I learned the coaching lingo, right, because I didn’t have like, I knew the tools, the tools that I use are the exact same tools that I teach people. But I didn’t have a vocabulary. And when I started to listen to Jodi, Moore, my wife was, actually my wife would come to me, and she’d be like, Hey, you know, that thing that you did to stop going to court? Jody just taught me that about diet coke. I’d be like, Oh, that’s how it works. But I didn’t know that’s what you would call it right. So we started to get this vocabulary. And we started to think, okay, we can actually turn this into something that people, we can help people do something totally new and amazing with their lives.
Tyson Bradley 16:52
Zack Spafford 16:53
And that was, that was why we chose porn, it was just this opportunity.
Tyson Bradley 16:57
You know, and, like you said, before, just this idea of, I had a problem, I never never, in other words, I’ve solved a problem, you still have a problem. And let me help you solve yours. I feel like now more than ever, that is one opportunity that almost anyone can tap into, in terms of like the coaching world, the training industry, the ability for you to take something that you’ve done, and sell it, and be able to teach someone else how to do what you’ve done. And I’m curious for you, as far as you know, in the process of starting up, sure you networked with other coaches and other things. But was there ever a point where you’re just like, man, I don’t know if this is gonna work or
Zack Spafford 17:40
Every single day, In fact, so you know, we’ve done really, really well, in terms of, you know, a brand new startup business, we net positive to about $100,000 in the first year, just over $100,000 in the first year after we graduated from the Life Coach School in March of 29 2020. Right? Yeah. So we’ve done I think, you know, markedly Well, like I don’t know very many other coaches who are like, I’m starting out brand new. And a year later, they’re making $100,000. So yes, every single day, for months, I don’t know if this is gonna work. I don’t know if this is gonna work. And also, like, last week, right. So we had our lowest probably our lowest month in over a year, last month, it’s still good money. Like, we still make great money. And then like the first three days, four days of this, this month, we made more money than we made last month.
Tyson Bradley 18:38
Zack Spafford 18:39
And some days, that’s how it feels. And I can tell you, especially in the beginning, I had to convince myself I had to, like, just get into that space of I am doing this. Because one I know it’s going to make a difference in the lives of people and two, it’s 100% workable, I just have to keep going, I have to keep going and not be a self doubter. And not, you know, cry in my Cheerios every morning. And sometimes you do cry in your Cheerios, and you’re like, how am I going to do this, you’re pulling your hair out. And I think that is honestly, the thing that you probably never learn, like really learn about entrepreneurship, until you experience it are the ups and downs, the highs and the lows. And the lows can be very low. Like when you go to a job when you have a job, which I’ve had. I’ve had really great jobs, right. I’ve always been very successful working for a company, you know, when I was much younger. When my wife and I were first married, I sold cell phones for a living. I worked for AT&T.
Tyson Bradley 19:42
Zack Spafford 19:42
And I was the top salesperson in the Chicago land area.
Tyson Bradley 19:47
Zack Spafford 19:47
And I lived in Milwaukee. I was beating out the people in the big city. Because I was good at it. I was good at having this conversation with people and helping them solve their problems. And when I worked for an insurance company, it’s the same thing. Like I was good at solving the problems and making the numbers,
Tyson Bradley 20:02
Zack Spafford 20:03
But when you are an entrepreneur, you have to be prepared, you have to be willing to be highly uncomfortable at various stretches, like highly uncomfortable, like, Oh my gosh, we’re gonna go on food stamps, and we’re gonna get Medicaid, because we can’t afford to pay our bills, if we don’t, but also, do I believe in this? Do I believe in what I’m doing? And if the answer to the second question is yes, and I have eight children, by the way, I don’t know if we’ve met it,
Tyson Bradley 20:31
Zack Spafford 20:31
I have lots of kids. So, you know, if you’re like sitting there, and you got one kid, or you got no kids, and you’re like, how can I, you know, stop my current lifestyle, and move into a lifestyle where I’m giving up all the fancy things that come with whatever salary I’m earning? I don’t have any sympathy for you.
Tyson Bradley 20:49
Zack Spafford 20:51
Tyson Bradley 20:52
Zack Spafford 20:52
And, and that’s, that’s what you got to do. You got to be willing to be highly uncomfortable. Take the road.
Tyson Bradley 20:56
Hey, you know, it kind of reminds me or at least I think will be interesting is, you know, if you were to compare entrepreneurship to kind of the work that you do with some of your clients, are there any like things that you think you know, what it’s like, this is just universal? You have to understand these these skills in order to really make make something?
Zack Spafford 21:17
Yeah. Do you want to know what I tell my clients every time I my very first conversation with them, I say to them, I am going to teach you how to be uncomfortable. That is probably the most important thing that you can get good at. Because the reason why we we look at porn for the most part, unless we don’t have any moral objection to it, the reason why we look at porn is usually because we feel bad and we don’t know how to manage our bad feelings, right? We feel lonely or frustrated or stressed, we feel some negative feeling.
Tyson Bradley 21:46
Zack Spafford 21:47
And rather than deal with that feeling, what we do is we set it aside, and we go look at porn for a little while,
Tyson Bradley 21:54
Zack Spafford 21:54
And we guarantee ourselves a good feeling for a set period of time, whatever that period of time is. And then guess what? All the bad feelings come back and then they compound.
Tyson Bradley 22:04
Zack Spafford 22:04
And in that exchange, right? So we talked about this in in coaching terms is life is 50-50. But in Scriptural terms, this is opposition in all things.
Tyson Bradley 22:14
Zack Spafford 22:15
Right. And we have to learn to deal with the negative before we can not have so many compounding negatives in our lives. And when it comes to entrepreneurship and stopping looking at pornography, it’s the exact same boat, like you got to get in and be like, Okay, I’m willing to feel scared. Right, which I think is one of the biggest feelings that I have that I felt as an entrepreneur, I’m, like scared that I’m not gonna be able to make payroll when I was an insurance agent, I’m scared that I’m not going to be able to pay my bills. And now, here I am,
Tyson Bradley 22:48
Yeah, are scared to talk to someone about what you do. Scared to put the post that first, the first ad or that first thing on your social media, whatever is like, this is what I’m doing. How can I help you scared to offer something.
Zack Spafford 23:04
So I think that’s a really good point that you’re making, which is, if what you’re selling is just a normal, average everyday sort of thing. Then imagine being someone who’s selling pornography coaching, like, not just, oh, I’m selling something. But I’m selling something that is deeply, deeply shameful to a lot of people. And it was to me, can you imagine being that guy who’s like, I’m totally scared to tell the entire world My wife’s grandmother thinks we’re insane.
Tyson Bradley 23:33
Zack Spafford 23:33
She’s like, well, they’re not. They’re not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So like, she hardly gets it. And, you know, there’s lots of there’s more story to that. But she’s like, how can they be she calls my mother in law, who is also not a member of the church. And it’s like, How can I be talking about this on the internet’s This is so inappropriate, right? You’re just like, Okay, well, Grandma, you’re not my audience. But that’s the kind of reaction that you feel like you’re going to get when you talk about this. So if you’re selling anything less shameful than pornography coaching, then you’re probably you could probably make it you could probably survive if I survive.
Tyson Bradley 24:11
You can probably do it you know, cuz in the process of sharing that your a pornography coach, there is almost like a admittance like, yes, I did that too.
Zack Spafford 24:21
Tyson Bradley 24:22
Zack Spafford 24:22
Now we’re on the same level, me and that guy who’s like, and I like, my favorite is, we talked about this pretty regularly because we get I used to get messages. I used to have an ad that ran that was just like, hey, just message me. And I’ll chat with you. And now kind of automates, yeah, but invariably, 1am is the time that I would get the most messages, because there are men up at 1am regretting their choices. And they were like, Oh, this is a song. This is a solution right here.
Tyson Bradley 24:51
Zack Spafford 24:52
And I love that. It’s so much fun to be like, Oh, I know what you’re doing like 15 minutes ago.
Tyson Bradley 25:00
Just like cuz it’s I mean, here’s the thing is like for any, any given individual, and you could even look at this in terms of your own life and your own pains, like there are times where you get to a point you’re like, I want to be done with this. That could be, you know, it’s the 100 1000s time that you’ve over eaten at dinner, or that you’ve had another cookie after lunch, and you just keep telling yourself, you don’t want to do this anymore. And you did it again. And now you’re just like, tired of this? Or it’s,
Zack Spafford 25:31
and that’s the way it is with being an entrepreneur,
Tyson Bradley 25:34
Zack Spafford 25:34
You’ve got to get to that place, I think. Because when you have a good job, and your life is going really well, like we were doing really well, when I worked for my the insurance company, right? Like we write awesome. And yet it was just like, No, I’m done with this. I’m done with going to these corporate meetings where we literally waste people’s time. And then, and then we don’t get anything done. I’m done working for someone who doesn’t appreciate what I do, you know, that last year, I was the only division in that state. So out of two different state offices, because the state was split in half, I was the only division so we’re talking about like 18 different divisions of over 500 agents each, I was the only division that hit my numbers you want you want to know what my boss said to me?
Tyson Bradley 26:20
What he say,
Zack Spafford 26:21
Oh, Oh, you did? Not like not like maybe man, thank you so much for hitting your numbers. Because you’re the only division the entire state that hit their numbers, we’re going to give you a good raise, and we’re gonna, you know, try you out to all the executives, none of that. It was just like, Oh, Oh, you did? Oh, you were you were the only like, okay, I don’t know that guy. I don’t need to work for that organization. And that’s really one of the things that kind of pushed me over the edge. And when you are in that place, personally, you have to be willing to say, I’m done with this. I’m done with not being appreciated for what I do. I’m going to create something that I appreciate that I love that I want to bring to the world. And if that’s coaching, great if that’s the days great if it’s whatever, do it make it happen?
Tyson Bradley 27:07
I love that. Yeah, you know, it kind of reminded me of I actually also worked for AT&T, although I was in the HR talent acquisition. And one of the things that I had to do was, it wasn’t just compliance training, it was, hey, in case all of our, what do they call it? labor unions in case all of our labor unions go on strike, and we don’t have people to do all these jobs, the technicians or whatever, we want you to take a course to understand how they do their jobs. And so here I am spending hours and hours and hours doing someone else’s job, like learning about someone else’s job. I’m like, learning about wiring and connections and like how the internet works, and I’m just like, no, this is not, this is not where I want to spend my time.
Zack Spafford 28:01
What I find interesting is that they were willing to pay, you know, yeah, to learn that job, which by the way, it’s very expensive to acquire staff and get them up to speed on things, rather than just pay people what they’re worth. Yeah. Yeah. So it was interesting working for a company.
Tyson Bradley 28:18
Oh, man. It’s great. And it’s, uh, we love them. And we also love being able to create our own things. And I think that there’s, you know, a lot of times in other interviews I’ve done, it’s, it’s kind of like, well, there’s, there’s part listening to what’s going on inside in terms of, Hey, I just feel guided to, you know, start my own thing or want, that’s just such a desire that I have to like, make it happen. And then there’s this idea of, Hey, this is just so painful. It’s like, there’s got to be another way. And I think that’s just the flip side of the desire, just like hmm, this is not where I really want to be.
Zack Spafford 28:56
Oh, yeah. 100%.
Tyson Bradley 28:58
So, for you guess what would you say is been the biggest surprise about being a successful entrepreneur?
Zack Spafford 29:05
Oh, man, the biggest surprise is that I’m a successful entrepreneur. I mean, think about it. Like, I’m not any smarter than anybody else. I don’t know anything more than most other people. I am, um, I’m not risk averse, right? So I’m totally willing to take on that risk and try something new and like, figure things out. But in being a successful entrepreneur, I can’t I did. I’ll be honest with you, man, I hoped that once I got this thing going, I could just like work three hours a day, maybe maybe three hours a week, and just let this thing just pay for itself. And I could go to the lake and ride my jet skis. And the thing that I think that we, we see a lot in terms of how entrepreneurship courses are sold is let me make your life that much easier. And those guys are those guys are liars in the short term anyway, in the short term, at least. But right like they’re they’re selling you a dream that doesn’t really exist for the first like three years of your of your entrepreneurship, you got to get in grind. Sometimes you got to you got to like, be there at midnight, when something goes wrong. You got to be there at 2am when something goes wrong, you got to get up early, you got to go to bed late. You got to really? And I’m not sure that? I’m not sure that that surprised me. I just didn’t like it.
Tyson Bradley 30:27
Zack Spafford 30:29
But the difference was, I could go back to corporate, I could go back to like farmers or another insurance company. And I could do that I could do that work. Right. But that doesn’t appeal to me either. So there’s either the discomfort of like working for someone, or the discomfort of working for yourself and getting all the profit. Right, right. You know, I look at like, apple, Apple’s a really amazing company. Do you know that they’re guys, the people that work in their Apple Stores make apple something like $400 an hour. So that’s on top of all the overhead and the costs of having these employees and any better right? salary and all that they make them $400 an hour? Could you imagine, rather than working for somebody creating a business that does that for you?
Tyson Bradley 31:14
Zack Spafford 31:15
where you get that profit and not give it to somebody else? That’s the dream. So the you know, the things that are surprising is how much how much fun this is? Yeah,
Tyson Bradley 31:25
Zack Spafford 31:25
It is a little bit funner than then working for somebody else, how flexible it is. But also how, like when something goes wrong, this is all you man, you got to make it happen. Figure it out.
Tyson Bradley 31:37
Is there a way you know, or? I mean, I know that for you. And this is for me, too. I feel like I am more willing to risk. But as far as helping someone who maybe is more risk averse, that they don’t want to take any risk. You know, what would you say to that?
Zack Spafford 31:55
Well, I mean, the truth is, is that we’re all we’re all always taking risk, we just couch it differently in our minds. Yeah, like, for instance, my father in law, who I love, he worked for the same company for 42 years. And the risk for him was not being able to get really what he was worth to that company. Because you know, when you work for a company, when it as an HR person, you know, they don’t give you any, they don’t really pay you what you’re worth, if you want to get paid more, you have to go to another company. So for him, he thought, well, it’s a risk to go to another company. But he was risking his retirement by stay, he was risking, you know, the, the future dividends or the amounts of money that he could have earned by staying. And that’s just, that’s the life, you got to either figure out, Okay, do I do I want to stay with this company and hope that they won’t, you know, reduction and force me or, you know, go under or turn into, you know, a company that I don’t want to work for with bosses that I don’t want to work for? Or
Tyson Bradley 32:58
Zack Spafford 32:58
Well, I want to take the risk and create something that I own, that’s mine, that makes me money that makes me be the person that I want to be, that helps me be the person that I want to be that helps other people achieve their goals, right? Because really, when you have a product, and you’re doesn’t matter what the product is, by the way, when you have a product that helps people solve their problems, that’s worth everything. You know, that feels good. So whether you’re selling those little fidget spinners that you know, they imported from China, or you’re selling life coaching, where you literally help people stop doing the thing that has been bugging them for their entire lives. It doesn’t matter. It just you get to feel good. And I love feeling good.
Tyson Bradley 33:39
Zack Spafford 33:41
But you have to be willing to feel bad in the process.
Tyson Bradley 33:43
Right, right. You know, the discomfort, it’s going through the discomfort. And, you know, I was actually I was thinking about this question, just you know, every day is a risk. Right? You wake up and there’s the risk of walking out and tripping and breaking your bones or getting hit by a car or whatever. It’s just being able to, I think we just assign, we just assign greater amounts of risks, depending on the decision, depending on the choice. And I think, on the other side of the risk is also the risk of not doing something.
Zack Spafford 34:16
Tyson Bradley 34:17
And kind of like your dad, you know, yeah, like, what’s the risk of not trying to do another job? Well, the risk is that I I stay here, but I don’t, I don’t really see what I’m capable of. I don’t get to learn I don’t get to grow my salary by going to different companies.
Zack Spafford 34:32
Well, and I think we do have a little bit of a, some conditioning here in the United States. And I’ve lived in Europe twice. I’d love to pay attention to what’s going on in the world. Yeah. Have you noticed? Have you have you ever, like walked into a gas station? Maybe not here in Utah, but in other parts of the country? And notice that oftentimes the person behind the counter is Indian, or Pakistani, or
Tyson Bradley 34:59
Zack Spafford 35:00
Yeah. What I find, especially with Americans is that we think that we’re supposed to get a job, that somebody’s supposed to provide a job for us, you know that we hear that in some of our political rhetoric, people from other countries, especially those countries, like, you know, the largest hoteliers in the country in the United States are Pakistanis, one of the guys that I helped ensure his name was Patel. He, which I’m not certain that’s Pakistani, now that I say that out loud. But, but foreigners oftentimes feel like they can take the risks and they’re willing to put in the hard work.
Tyson Bradley 35:37
Zack Spafford 35:38
And that’s, that’s not super uncommon among Americans as well. But what it is, is, it’s a complete ethos in the way that they just drive. And if you go into a subway in Chicago land when I when I was a kid living in Chicago, land every single person behind the counter was both an owner and from another country.
Tyson Bradley 35:56
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Zack Spafford 35:58
You go into the gas stations, exact same thing. By in laws, next door neighbor owns like 1000 liquor stores, it’s not really 1000 liquor stores. But every time every time he talks to my father was like, Hey, if you’re going to sell your house, let me know what you want for it, I’ll just pay for it. I’ll pay you cash, don’t don’t sell it through a thick, just just let me know. Because he was willing to take risk, he’s willing to take that risk on and just be willing to, like, deal with whatever comes. And I think part of that is they’re starting over anyway. When they feel like well, if I’m going to start over, I might as well make something my own. And I’m always interested, this this, like, takes me into this conversation that I like to talk about with, with my friends who are into business, right?
Tyson Bradley 36:37
Zack Spafford 36:38
you talk about multi level marketing schemes, and how it’s like, hey, come sell, whatever,
Tyson Bradley 36:44
Zack Spafford 36:44
Whatever my product is, right? I’ll put you under me. And then all that stuff. What’s really interesting to me is that whatever it is that they’re selling you, if you wanted to sell that you could go to China, and there are apps for this, this is how I imported my buddies, you could like reach out to China and be like, hey, manufacture this for me, let’s put a white label on it. I’ll do the marketing in the States, and you get all the profit. But rather than do that, we think oh, let Let me slide into this comfortable position, under somebody who were my risk is basically, you know, $1,000 to start up and sign up, and all that stuff, whatever that is, and I’ll just sell their stuff. And really, what ends up happening is you just end up buying all all the stuff that you have to make numbers. And it’s, you know, it’s a terrible system. Because like, a lot of the stuff they’re selling, you can just go to Target and get. But if you’re going to create a product, if you’re going to sell a product and put your heart and soul into it, which is a lot of times what people do in these mlms you might as well make your own. It’s not that hard. I know, it sounds like it’s hard. You’re like, I gotta find a manufacturer, and I got to import the data. It’s not that hard, especially nowadays, with the technology that we have. So why not take the risk? Why not just be like, Okay, I’m gonna unload that risk. And I’m gonna give them all the profit on the back end, which I love.
Tyson Bradley 38:01
Which is nice. This is what well, what is what we really want anyways,
Zack Spafford 38:07
nobody wants to work for somebody make them totally $10 million. And they’d be like, okay, here’s your 50 bucks for your hours. Right? Nobody does that. Nobody wants to do that. But yet, we think, Oh, it’s safer. Yeah. And in the end, it’s not actually safer. Because when you don’t make enough money early, guess what you don’t have when you go to retire, or when you go to need that money? You don’t have it?
Tyson Bradley 38:29
Zack Spafford 38:30
it’s not there. So being an entrepreneur, like I said, at the very beginning, this is about creating wealth, building wealth for yourself and your family. It’s not really it’s not really about anything else.
Tyson Bradley 38:39
Love it. Well, as we close here, what would you tell would be entrepreneurs that you wish someone had told you?
Zack Spafford 38:48
Oh, well, I what I really wish is that someone had literally kicked me out of all corporate jobs and said, don’t go back. Start now. Don’t go back. I don’t care what you do. Don’t go back to corporate. I wish that had been, you know, what your experience? Because until I was ready to end it, you know, truthfully, I probably couldn’t have done that. Because I probably would have been like, wait, but where’s my security? Now, this is the exchange we make. We may take security for losing all the profit. Yeah. And if we just reverse that, we get all these profits, we create our own security.
Tyson Bradley 39:24
Zack Spafford 39:25
And I wish I had understood that as a budding entrepreneur, somebody who’s like, Yeah, I just need a good idea. I just need something. I kept thinking about it, thinking about it thinking about it, finally. And I was like, well, I’ll just start with something that already works. Right? I’ll be an insurance agent. But as the more I thought about it, I was like, I don’t have to. I don’t have to reinvent the wheel. I just have to get something I’m good at and passionate about.
Tyson Bradley 39:48
Zack Spafford 39:49
And I know that sounds so cliche. Yeah. Like, the more you know, NBC like you read Do you remember those commercials from a kid from when you were a kid, the more you write Well, the younger audience, you probably don’t even remember TV. But like, it’s it sounds like a public service announcement, but it is. It’s like, just do it. Just get in there.
Tyson Bradley 40:11
Yeah. Okay, last question for you is, how would you say building a business has strengthened your relationship with Christ?
Zack Spafford 40:20
Oh, this is such a good question. Because the truth is, when you need to rely on someone, and the only person you can rely on is Jesus Christ and your heavenly Father. You get real close with them now, because because there’s nobody out there like, I mean, think about it. Who wants to invest in this business? Hey, so what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna help men stop looking at porn. So would you like to invest in that? No, no one does not a person. They’re like, wait, no, no. porn industry is like a billion dollar industry is never going away. Men want to stop looking at porn. They’re weird anyway, cuz people. That’s fun, right? Like, there’s no VC out there who’s like, you know what you need to do? We just need to jazz this up and do some more marketing. No, nobody, nobody wants to give you money for this. Not even my mother in law wants to give me money for this. And so when you when you need Christ, because nobody else is there for you. And you know, this is the right thing to do. I mean, it’s one of those things like I knew this was what we needed to do. There was never a moment, let me just put it this way. There was never a moment that I didn’t know what the next step was. There was also never a moment where the next step wasn’t hard. Yeah, that is where you get to know Jesus. Right? You get to know Christ in that moment, because Heavenly Father just lays this path out for you. And he’s like, here it is. And you’re like, I don’t know if I could do this. This is hard. Helped me.
Tyson Bradley 41:40
I think that’s one of the keys. You know, you talk about being willing to feel discomfort. I mean, I think that’s part of the process, partnering with someone that can help you in the discomfort.
Zack Spafford 41:51
Tyson Bradley 41:51
that someone is Christ.
Zack Spafford 41:53
And here’s something that changed for me, too, that I think is a really dramatic shift. So we live here in the West, and there is a huge drought. And this is just an, you know, good way to illustrate this. And I don’t know if you guys are doing this up where you live. But here, almost invariably, every single Sunday, one of the people who prays either the opening prayer or the closing prayer for our congregation, they say, Please bless us. Great. Right. So they’re asking Heavenly Father to help solve this problem. Yeah. And that is one of the things that we do throughout our life, we kind of think of our prayers as this opportunity to ask for a goodie bag from our Heavenly Father, I think anyway,
Tyson Bradley 42:36
Zack Spafford 42:36
like, solve this problem for me fix this thing helped me Stop looking at porn, make my business better, whatever it is, right? Make it so my clients show up. But the thing that changed as I worked through my relationship with Christ and worked through my prayers to understand what it was that he wanted, what I wanted, and what he could help me with really,
Tyson Bradley 42:55
Zack Spafford 42:56
was that I stopped asking for him to solve my problem. And I started asking for him to help me see better how I could be the better version to the next thing and understand the process better. I asked him to help me solve my own problem. And we see this in, you know, in the example of the brother of Jared, where it goes to Christ, and he’s like, Hey, we’re gonna be in a boat, and that boat is going to be tight, tight, like into a ditch, and I’m not gonna be able to see what should we do in crisis? Like, I don’t know, figure it out. Let me know, I’ll help you with whatever you come up with. Right? And the brother Jared comes with these rocks. Right? Here’s a good idea. Let’s make rocks into light. so terrible idea. But it wasn’t until the brother of Jared did all the groundwork to make this thing happen, that the Lord was like, Okay, here’s the miracle unique. Rocks light now, right? And for us to think about this in different ways. And for us to think about our trials in different ways. We have to be willing to say, hey, Heavenly Father, don’t just bless us with rain, because if you bless us with rain, we’re probably just going to keep on going the way we’re going, bless us to understand what is creating this drought, and help us understand how we can create the will to solve for that problem.
Tyson Bradley 44:10
Zack Spafford 44:11
That’s a very different prayer. And it puts a lot more work on us. And guess what we don’t usually like to put work on ourselves.
Tyson Bradley 44:19
Zack Spafford 44:20
And this is why I think most people who turn to our Heavenly Father, whether whether they’re trying to solve for pornography, or trying to solve for how to make my business run, or trying to solve or whatever, this is why I think there are very few people who are successful.
Tyson Bradley 44:34
Zack Spafford 44:35
Is that they are not asking Heavenly Father for the right thing. And when I say the right thing, I don’t mean like, you know, you have to pray in exactly a certain way. I’m saying they’re not looking to our Heavenly Father not to solve their problem. They are. They are looking to Heavenly Father to solve the problem rather than looking to Heavenly Father to clarify in their minds, how they can solve their own problem, how they can move forward best how they could get to the place where the miracle can happen, because unless the brother of Jared shows up with the rocks, the miracle doesn’t happen. And that’s the thing that we have to figure out as entrepreneurs is like, Okay, how far do I have to go? How much further Can I go without the help? And how can I lean on Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ to help me see the future that I need to create before they can give me the miracle that I need?
Tyson Bradley 45:20
Right. I think Elder Bednar put it in a similar way. It’s like he shared a story of the pioneers wasn’t about howling fire. Bless us with food, it’s a heavenly Father, help us help our stomachs to be able to eat this horrible, pretty much leather in water. Food.
Zack Spafford 45:39
Yeah. Right. Because they had searched for all the food, there was a news and like, a grocery store coming up. They had done all the groundwork, and they were like, Okay, this is this. This is the solution that we’ve got, that we can come up with. We’ve done all of our groundwork. We’ve done the homework, we’ve done everything we think we can do up to this point. Can you please help us with just this next, this miracle that we need? Because I don’t think we can do it? If we don’t have that? Yeah. Yeah. He stole that from me. He stole that from you, for sure.
Tyson Bradley 46:08
It’s like, you know, how it’s like helped me to sustain myself on the what I have. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So if people want to get a hold of you, they want to they’re sort of like, you know what, I do struggle with porn, or I struggle with something along those lines. How would they how would they get ahold of you and get into your world?
Zack Spafford 46:28
Yeah, so the easiest thing to do is to go to my website, you can you can click on the work with me tab that will help you set up an appointment if you want to spend 30 minutes with me figuring out how it is that I help people. I would love to do that with you. If you just want to like chat, find me on Instagram at Zack Spafford dot self mastery coach, but I love talking to people there if you don’t have Instagram, like I didn’t until I became a coach because I’m an old man. I’m not really that old. But, you know, you can find me on Facebook at Zach’s Baffert, the self mastery coach, or you could just come listen to the self mastery podcast, which we do every Monday, which I love doing. I
Tyson Bradley 47:04
love it. All right, and you just celebrated 100 episodes. So
Zack Spafford 47:08
100 episodes amazing.
Tyson Bradley 47:10
So good. All right, Zach, thank you for being on here and for just sharing with us all. All your wisdom in your in your story?
Zack Spafford 47:19
Yeah, absolutely. happy to
Tyson Bradley 47:21
Talk to you later.
Zack Spafford 47:22
Tyson Bradley 47:23
Bye. All right, everybody. So something that I wanted to touch on from Zach’s message is a little bit more on risk. And I know for many of you the idea of starting a business of going out on your own of leaving everything behind and risking it all, that that can seem like a risk that that can be put your family in jeopardy, that that can lead to you losing everything. And in my own journey, what I did was mitigate the risk. One way to mitigate the risk was to keep my full time job and work on the side. And we’ve seen in plenty of examples of people who do that, that they keep their full time job, and then they create the time and slowly but surely, they make it happen. And then there are those who are forced to quit, you know, they may get laid off, you may be in a situation where you’re just done with work or you get fired. And now you are free to explore and to set your own path. And yet there is still that risk, where, or at least the worry of, you know, should I be applying to jobs, or should I be creating my own thing. And for any of you who just have that concern, have any worries, have apprehension to creating something for yourself on your own selling a product or service, whatever it is that you are trying to create? I’ll let you know that it’s not only possible, but that if you have a belief, if you have faith, if you know, in your heart that this is something that you want to do that this is something you feel guided to do, then, in my mind, and what I have experienced is that God will support you. And that support may look like you get to $100 in your bank account and you don’t know what to do next. And you hold the faith and you hold that trust and you hold that expectation that there is some reason why You felt impressed to go this way, or go that way or to create this business that you’ve always wanted. And so I just want to offer you hope I want to offer you the idea that you have this desire for reason. And it’s not going to come without discomfort, it’s not going to come without you being willing to put your effort in and possibly fail, and possibly learn a lot. So I just want to invite you to do all you can to let this be a learning experience. And if you want to understand the skills, to feel discomfort when it comes to your business, and allow that discomfort and still move forward. That’s what I’m here for. That’s what this whole podcast that’s what everything is here for. So I want to invite you to come check out entrepreneurs of Christ calm, and that’s where you can learn more. That’s where you can find me, that’s where you can get resources. That’s where you can set up a time with me to learn how to develop these skills so that you can build the business that you want in a way that serves you. All right. Let’s do it. Alright, have a good one. We’ll talk to you later. Bye.
If you know you want to create a business and want to get started in learning the skills, sign up for a FREE discovery call by clicking the link below.